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Vortec 6.0 L swap to 71 GMC 4x4  
paytonmack
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 04/08
Posted: 04/21/08
02:06 PM

I am restoring my 71 4x4. I am going to find a decent vortec engine 6.0, cable actuated throttle. What manual transmission do I need to find? (One with overdrive or 5th gear). Can I still use my original transfer case? If so how do I make it adapt to the newer transmission? Does anyone know if the transmissions are close to the same as far as trans mount location and shifter location. I want better fuel economy and ease of shifting. I think that I can use original pedals but just mount the shaft for clutch cylinder correctly on pedal arm. Hope someone has experience with this.  


 
ls1andvortec
User | Posts: 62 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 04/22/08
05:55 PM

You can bolt a GenIII to anything chevrolet, you just have to be generous on your budget when it comes to EFI retrofitting.  


MAKE IT SMOG LEGAL!!!

88 toyota truck 3.5 vortec engine swap, dual cases. A/C smog legal.
76 chevrolet 4 door 4X4 6.0 VORTEC v8 SM465 NP205
85 Chevrolet 4 door dually 5.3 VORTEC V8 4l65E
2002 Chevrolet SIVERADO LS2 supercharged 4l65E
ALL SMOG LEGAL and A/C baby!!!

 
SnoMan
Guru | Posts: 1008 | Joined: 03/08
Posted: 04/23/08
06:37 AM

If you really want FI, I would use a 350 TBI because they will do best in town when setup correctly. You could use a 350 Vortec too made from 96 to 2001 (in 2000 it was used in C/K 3500's and in 96 to 01 on in vans) Vortec 350 has more top end power but less at low speeds. I know I have both of them and I honestly prefer the TBI for a daily driver plus TBI swaps are a lot easier. 6.0 use a different bolt pattern on bell housing while SB's, BB's, 6.2's, 6.5's and even Dmax's all share same pattern. ALso if you are looking for better MPG, a 6.0 can be thirsty. I am not saying a 6.0 is a bad engine but what i am saying that there is a lot of other easier options here and in the bigger picture, if MPG is focus, you need to look at lift, tires and axle ratio because they all play a big roll here too. BTW, I have a 89 1500 4x4 burb that I bought new and is still pretty cherry. It has over 180K on it now and is stock except for a flow master single exhaust I had put on when stock exhaust gave up several years ago. Tires are stock type too load range "C" Mich's. It will do about 18 MPG or a bit better on highway trips at about 65 MPH regular as clock work using A/C and has hit over 19 a few times not using A/C on cool days. It is primarily used for trips but sees some urban usage. In urban driving it does in 15's to low 16's. What I like about TBI engine is that you have more wiggle room tuning them because you can manually reset base line timing. With a VorTec you have to use a tuner and hope for best but you cannot custom set timing unless you have a expensive laptop/software setup to do it. I run my base line timing at 8 BTDC (not TDC) and use 89 in winter and 93 the rest of the time. It runs great. With stock timing and 87 octane when new I was lucky to get 15 MPG at times on highway and usually 14 or less and it was a slug at times too. I have a 2000 K3500 with a 350 Vortec and it does get 2 to 3 less MPG than burb in urban driving and that is with a tuner and better fuel too. On highway it gets 1 to 2 MPG less. I "wish" I had the TBI motor in my K3500 as its power curve would be better suited to how I use truck.  


 
ls1andvortec
User | Posts: 62 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 04/23/08
08:05 AM

Snoman
Explain the bolt pattern difference for me on the 6.0 I though my sm465 bolted right up to my 6.0 with no adapters in between. I have a 1985 dually that i originally converted to a 2000 vortec 5.7 from a tahoe and let me tell you that it came alive when I stepped up to a 5.3 vortec from a 2006 silverado. Low end torque was fantastic and RPM band was much smoother on torque. Let me ask you the same question I ask over and over again...Have you ever driven a 5.3? or 6.0?   I do agree with you on the gas mileage on the 6.0 it is brutal!!!! OMG 13 MPG on my 6000 pound, no overdrive gear 1976 4 door long bed 3/4 ton rig.  


MAKE IT SMOG LEGAL!!!

88 toyota truck 3.5 vortec engine swap, dual cases. A/C smog legal.
76 chevrolet 4 door 4X4 6.0 VORTEC v8 SM465 NP205
85 Chevrolet 4 door dually 5.3 VORTEC V8 4l65E
2002 Chevrolet SIVERADO LS2 supercharged 4l65E
ALL SMOG LEGAL and A/C baby!!!

 
SnoMan
Guru | Posts: 1008 | Joined: 03/08
Posted: 04/23/08
08:43 AM

A 6.0 has a extra bolt hole in bell housing to block mount (high in center) My guess is that they did that because they are using thinner materials so they spread stress. I have driven many 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 and some as extended loaners over the years. 6.0 run good but every one I had was THIRSTY big time. I never cared for a 5.3. It has good power above 3000 RPM and likes to rev out but I do not drive that way and it is rare that I get above 3500 RPM for any period of time. For this the 350 VorTec is a better engine and it does best with 89 octane or better fuel. Biggest difference between SB Vortec and 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 is that these engine have tuned intakes which SB VorTec never had in truck apps but a 350 will respond well to a different intake. Also if you used a 2006 5.3 as made, it is drive by wire which means you have no direct control over throttle plate position so you really do not know how it is responding to pedal input. It can open plates a lot with little input depending on ECM programming so pedal response can be misleading. I know that times are changing but basic SB design lasted nearly 50 years because it was a solid design. They 4.8,5.3,6.0 family of engines will be lucky to still be around after only 15 years or less. The whole focus of that series was to reduce engine building cost and improve emission compliance. I like things simple and proven and easy to fix. You can change a knock sensor on a SB in 5 minutes and it has been that way since early 80's. GM quietly moved it under intake in the current engines and changed a 5 minute job to a several hour one. I do not call that new and improved. Each revision is less user friendly for repairs which means they are nice when new but you do not want to get old with one.  


 
ls1andvortec
User | Posts: 62 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 04/23/08
10:01 AM

I understand your point on the whole knock sensor deal. I am under the impression that this engines go tru a 9 month 24/7 endurance test on a dyno and many more endurance tests on individual components. One of them called a PIND Particle Inpact Detection test. Where sensors are put tru a shaker and tested for stress breakage and any components that may come loose. I work on this engines fo a living and I am not preaching on speculations and ASSumptions on how the drive by wire accelerator works. It is a linear actutator in responce to pedal position it does not work on its own, you give it 20% it does 20% you give it 47% it does 47%   The extra bolt hole did not prvent me from bolting my SM465 to the 6.0 it was just ignored but all the other holes and dowels were there. In adition to a better smog compliance, cheaper building cost and a production spectancy of 15 years it is also slowly mutating like the small block did over the years. Just like the oil cap, intake and other revisions the the SB undewent over the years (I am not ASSuming or speculating on my own, I know the GENIII+ family better) The GENIII is now out of production and raplaced by the GENIV which includes the reviced Knock sensor repositioning. Not because everybodys knock sensor were going bad but because they had to make room for the DOD  Displacement On Demmand lifter oiling system. My dentist started bashing on the DOD but I mentioned to him that it has been a couple decades, a couple of procesor generations and a few million dollars woth of endurance tests and development. My dentist also mentioned that when I get to his age (64) I will also have a porblem accepting changes, I foud it funny that he now drives a lexus HYBRID but would not accept DOD. Than again he also mentioned a near fatal accident when his cady stalled while switching from V4 to V8.  


MAKE IT SMOG LEGAL!!!

88 toyota truck 3.5 vortec engine swap, dual cases. A/C smog legal.
76 chevrolet 4 door 4X4 6.0 VORTEC v8 SM465 NP205
85 Chevrolet 4 door dually 5.3 VORTEC V8 4l65E
2002 Chevrolet SIVERADO LS2 supercharged 4l65E
ALL SMOG LEGAL and A/C baby!!!

 
SnoMan
Guru | Posts: 1008 | Joined: 03/08
Posted: 04/23/08
12:48 PM

Actually it is not linear as you state plus it can be altered with a tune too. Your pedal input goes to ECM and ECM runs throttle plate. (Westers tunes were good are changing the rate between pedal and throttle plates) On the endurance test, it means little because what ages electronic a lot is time and heat cycles not running for 500 or 1000 hrs. You might put one on a stand and run it the equivalent of 400K miles without a problem but that is not like 100K on the street stop and go, hot and cold and so on. Diesel truck owners always brag how diesel engine have such a long life and site OTR tractors going 500K and more between overhauls but the flaw here is that any engine gas or diesel will last longer if run constantly. Put a 10 quart pan on a SB and run it a lot and it will go hundreds of K miles. My son works at a oil change place and he is always telling me about old fleet trucks with 350's in them that come in for regular servicing and that are still on road doing fine with 400K plus miles on them. Strange thing is I was talking to him the other day and he told me that he has yet to see the first 200K plus Ford come in. Kinda strange for a truck that talks about how tuff they are in commercials. I can respect you point of view but I have been driving since before emissions were added to cars and I have seen a lot and new today just means more to go wrong with it and cost more to fix too. I like the way that GM quietly moved fuel filter into tank in 05 and the latest truck took the ABS controller from its protected position under hood to down under truck in the rain, mud, stone, snow and salt spray. (it will not last long there) It must cost them less to put it there.  


 
ls1andvortec
User | Posts: 62 | Joined: 09/07
Posted: 04/23/08
01:30 PM

Nowonder the salesman at the dealer where I bought my truck used the ABS module as an excuse to sell me the extended warranty. $1400 If your ABS module goes bad. But in the other hand... I have never seen or met anybody who lost or damaged an ABS pump, so I had to pass on the extended warranty. I have to agree 50% with you on the oil changes and life expectancy. The oil quality has come up, it now has to meet a minimum API efficiency standard and that is what led to a more efective lubricant. I have yet to see a 200K ford too. I was offered a 2004 6.0 Power Stroke engine and trans for $1000 yesterday, I had to turn it down I have not seen a hi mileage ford yet. I buy engines at the wrecing yard once a week and the yard is full of chevy engines and ford bodys... that explains alot now.  


MAKE IT SMOG LEGAL!!!

88 toyota truck 3.5 vortec engine swap, dual cases. A/C smog legal.
76 chevrolet 4 door 4X4 6.0 VORTEC v8 SM465 NP205
85 Chevrolet 4 door dually 5.3 VORTEC V8 4l65E
2002 Chevrolet SIVERADO LS2 supercharged 4l65E
ALL SMOG LEGAL and A/C baby!!!

 
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