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83cj
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 06/27/08 09:25 AM
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I have heard lots of controversy about skinny or wide tires for mostly mud bogging, Which do you think would be better in the mud 35x10.5 boggers or 35x14.5 boggers?
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bigtreat
New User
| Posts: 7
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 06/27/08 09:47 AM
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That depends on the kind of mud you drive in. Deep thick mud the wider the tire the better, you get better floatation with them. In shallow sloppy mud the skinny ones would do better to cut through the slop and get you to hard ground and traction underneath. At least this has been the way Ive seen them work best. Hope this helps.
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83cj
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 06/28/08 08:31 AM
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Most of the boggs or freshly plowed fields I run in are usually not deeper than a couple of feet before you find a hard bottom. so for that application you think wide or skinny?
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SnoMan
Guru
| Posts: 1284
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 06/28/08 09:17 AM
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If this is on a CJ which weighs less than a full sized P/U, I would go with narrow, It would guide better plus it will be easier to spin them a bit faster to clean them too. I hope you have regeared axles to so you can properly power these tires too.
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83cj
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 06/28/08 01:24 PM
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4.10's
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SnoMan
Guru
| Posts: 1284
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 06/28/08 05:29 PM
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4.10 is not a good gear for 35's by any means but for some strange reason many seem to think it is the magic ratio to have. I have never quite figured this one out (why many think it is) The "perfect" ratio is usually approx the tire size divided by axle ratio and you want a result of around 7.2 (with a six) give or take with a OD tranny or tire size divided by 7.2 which in this case is 35 / 7.2 or 4.86 which means a 4.88. With a 4cyl you would want to divide by about 6.8 which would be a 5.14 (actually a 5.13 is available) A 4.10 is a great off road ratio with stock tire sizes but not bigger tires.
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bigtreat
New User
| Posts: 7
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 06/28/08 06:21 PM
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snoman has a good point on the gearing. I run a fullsize truck with 33's and I like a wider tire on it. A friend of mine has a cj on 38x12.50 with a 5.13 gear and it does pretty good all around. He drives it to work some and to the trails. I do know the boggers work alot better with plenty of tire spin to clean them.
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SnoMan
Guru
| Posts: 1284
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 06/28/08 06:42 PM
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I know that some may think I harp a bit on gears but it is really simply physics. When you install larger tires on stock gears you make your effective gear ratio taller which means that you put less tractive effort down to ground in every gear than you did with stock tires. It is kinda like saying that you want your 4x4 to "1ook" cooler but be slower too. The net result with big tires and stock gears is about the same as if you put taller gears in with stock tires except a bit worse because tires and lift adds drag which take even more power to overcome. Proper gearing is the great equalizer here.
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snh
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 10/07
Posted: 06/28/08 07:00 PM
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I wheel a bronco 2 with 38.5x11" boggers and sport 3.31 gears in my diffs.
my engine is a built 4.0 V6 with a comp cams 422 cam, port and pollished heads, 64mm throttle body, electric fan , headers and high flow 2.25" exhaust.
admitedly in high range it is quite a dog, but i always wheel in low and get tons of tire speed, with the 3.4:1 first gear in my manual trans, as soon as i mash the skinny peddel, it hits the rev limiter.
so with that, i would recomend taking into accountur trans gearing and t-case gears as well. also if it is driven on the streets a lower gear ratio may be a better idea for driving in high range. i intend to get my truck on the road and at that time i will regear to 4.56 or 4.88. but i am also going back to an auto tranny wich has a higher first gear.
a nother thing to factor in is if this rig will be seeing any rock or greasy hill climbs. a little lower gear set would be benificial in these areas as well and could be compensated for tire speed with second or third gear in the tranny for mudding.
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SnoMan
Guru
| Posts: 1284
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 06/29/08 05:28 AM
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Your bronco is running well below its potential. Low range was not made to make up for tall gears and big tires and you running places a lot of undo force on chassis and Tcase from high torque loads on it. Tall gears are also hurting your traction a lot because to power your wheels the axle twists up a lot counter to input torque which takes weight off RR wheel and reduces its traction (this is why RR tires always spins first with open diff) When I used to "wheel" a lot I used to gear my trucks deep enough that I rarely even needed to use low range (the only time I would actually use it was sand or when I needed to creep) To me the "baseline" minimum axle ratio in a 4x4 is 4.10 with 30's. I am a big fan of gears and with 38's I would be running 5.13's or maybe even 5.38's and would not waste time with a 4.56 for sure. I used to play very hard in past and one of my favorites was climbing hills wet and dry and I never needed low range to do it either. Gear make or break a 4x4's true ability off road as even a 4 cyl can do a incredible job off road with the right gears behind it.
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snh
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 10/07
Posted: 06/29/08 01:22 PM
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my truck came from the factory with 3.08 gears and 27" tires. 4.56 is a little lower than the stock overall ratio with 38" tires.
to each is own; or so they say. I feel that too low of a gear ratio reduces tire speed wich is gonna impede tires ability to clean in mud, and with 3.31's i can climb steep hills without touching the gas in low range. for the type of terrain i wheel i felt that a little higher gear set and compinsating with added horse power would benifit my driving style and wheeling preferences.
id say leave the 4.10's and 35's for now, my friend runs 39.5's with 4.10's and my cousine 44" boggers with 4,10 and they do great in mud and are able to crawl through and over things fine also. if u dont like it the way it is u can always change them. I wheel with a nother guy in a 4 cyl. TJ on 33's with 3.73 gears and he can out do our friends JK Rubicon in the same trail. the rubi has 4.10's 32" tires and 4:1 low range with F/R lockers and was out done time and again by the 4 banger with a lunch box in the rear only and higher gears...
as for wide vs. narrow,,,, i have 11" wide and my friend has 39.5x18 boggers and we both go the same places, he is a lot heavier though, but was just as capable with my tires last summer so i would go with the 35x10.5" boggers.
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SnoMan
Guru
| Posts: 1284
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 06/29/08 03:43 PM
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Factory stock gears are for best staged numbers on EPA test cycle, not for real world. A 3.08 has no business in a 4x4 period. Anyone that suggests otherwise has low performance expectations. 4.10 with 35's is not good and a smaller engine with deeper gears would outperform it off road. This whole lift and big tires with stock/tall gears relative to tire size is so silly in that you want you 4x4 to look HD/bad but you make it LD and slower because if you took the time and money to gear it right it would be a different animal on and off road. If I had a choice between say a 1/2 ton chevy P/U with 35's and 4.10's with a 350 and a 4.3 with 4.88's I would take the later for off road and with a CJ/Wrangler with 4.10, 35's and a 6 and a 2.5 with 5.13 it would be the later too for serious off road crawling. Deeper gears not only give you more power to ground but also improves traction and until you have run and lived with such a setup, you do not have a clue as to what you are missing here. BTW, when you figure gear ratios for new tires and lift it is not simply make overall effective ratio the same because it now takes more power to roll and cruise because of added drag so you go deeper than stock in effective drive ratio if you want it to run proper and get out of its own way and not be bested by a family sedan in acceleration.
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Gumby21
New User
| Posts: 11
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/12/08 02:10 PM
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GO WIDE
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Posted: 08/24/08 11:05 AM
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Well one other factor is how much torque your engine makes and cammed. I run 40" hawgs on 4.56 and run about 2900rpm down the highway around 78mph. My auto c-6 low gear kit has low stall converter with 205 transfer. I usually run snow and mountains and mud.If your engine isn't making the torque then gearing is a serious issue. But gearing is a little more forgiving with good torque. I ran 35" with 4.10's and loved it but still needed another gear in tranny. Question is what tranny you have and gearing and your application. I you run a manual trany you need the broadest rpm range you can get so you don't have to hit the clutch in nasty situation. Auto are a little more forgiving in nasty situation because you don't have to disengage drivetrain lose momentum. Ran manuals for many years. At the mudbogs you don't win much with a manual tranny. I know I'm gonna upset somebody so let the games begin. My other work truck has a manual tranny.
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