Stock off-roader

A buddy of mine is considering purchasing a SUV.  He currently gets by without a car, and would need it primarily for camping trips where he would go off-road to get to campsites.  His concerns are primarily "If a tree falls on the path, will I be able to go over or around it."  My concern is that the vehicle be safely driven by a novice and be a safe vehicle on the road.

He's thinking Jeep Wrangler Rubicon.  I'm thinking that's not a safe vehicle.  When I think safe, I think, in order of importance:

1. Not rear-wheel drive
2. ABS
3. Electronic stability control
4. Crumple zones
5. Modern snow tires for the winter
6. Telematics
7. Brake assist
8. 4 channels for the ABS
9. Brake force distribution
10. Xenon lights
11. Seatbelt pretensioners
12. Seatbelt force-limiters
13. Airbags

I've suggested Land Rover Freelander, VW Touareg, Toyota RAV4 and Subaru Outback, but he doesn't like any of them.  He's considering settling for a Nissan Xterra Offroad, but that's still rear-wheel drive, though it does have many of the other important safety features and would be much safer than a Wrangler.

Do any of you have other suggestions or information about taking the Land Rover Freelander, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Outback off-road successfully?  Am I wrong about the Wrangler being just about the least-safe new vehicle available?

Finally, don't skid-plates lower the ground clearance?  Might he not be better off without them?

Thanks in advance for the help!

I personally think ABS is the most over rated safety feature on modern vehicles. I have driven both ABS and non ABS vehicles through many canadian winters and prefer no ABS. Proper driving skill and braking techniques entirely eliminate the need for ABS.

Rear wheel drive is by no means unsafe under any conditions. I prefer rwd as i find it far more predictable in slippery situations over FWD on so called "traction on demand" automatic AWD systems.

It more ultimately boils down to what the driver feels the most comfortable operating. Confidence in your ability to handle your vehicle is by far the best safety feature, it will save you from getting into trouble before the vehicles extra safety features need to kick in.

If you freinds biggest concern is being able to get over downed trees, etc... ground clearance is an important consideration, "cute-utes" sit about as high off the ground as a toyota tercel. Best way to get over downed trees, cut them out of the way with an axe, if its too big to chop through with some work wth an axe, your gonna get high centered on it with a stock truck.

I have worked in the bush for years, alot of the time the vehicle is irrevalent, the operator makes the difference. It seemed my summer students could get a 3/4 ton 4x4 87 chev stuck on a downed 10" diameter poplar tree.....the same tree i just drove over with a 2wd 82 scottsdale...The examples are endless. 

The safety equipment you bring is as important as what the vehicle comes equipped with.

My 2 cents.  

with all the safety features you want you might as well get a dodge caravan. There is absolutely nothing wrong with jeeps. had there been, they wouldn't have been in such big production and widespread use. let your "friend" stick with the jeep and he'll be okay. And as for skid plates, if he plans on climbing over things, GET THEM, the whole purpose of underbody protection is just that, UNDERBODY PROTECTION.

I agree, ABS is over rated and often a hinderance offroad.This list of safety features you mention such as abs, stability control, hill assist etc have all been developed to assist drivers who either are not experienced drivers or have pushed the limits of their vehicle to the point where they have gotten themselves into trouble.

Some driving instruction from a good driving school would be just as beneficial if not better than all of these safety features.

As for airbags the wrangler has them along with crumple zones,and as a bonus it even has a rollbar! Xenon headlights are not necessary and as for modern snow tires, they can be purchased anytime.

Being a rear wheel drive vehicle makes the wrangler no less safe than a front wheel drive and skidplates are a necessary "safety feature" if your friend plans to drive offroad. If he were to damage something on a rock for example because he didn't have the skid plate he would then be stranded in a potentially dangerous situation. Maybe he wants the wrangler because it has the ability to go more places offroad than the other vehicles you mentioned at a much lower cost to him for the vehicle than say a landrover.

i agre becous i have a 1990 dodge ram converson van with a 318 and a 8 1/4 rear axly. i have gone places and people thought it was a 4x4 truck. The 3 major things i wish i had would be skid plates( i took out the oil pan on some rocks) a role cage and a rear locker. now i know you may not think a van is very safe but if you get experience and always bring somthing to pull yourself out with or get 4x4 and some good tires and drive in 2 tilll you get stuck and then engage it. Im only 17 but i still have more experience whelling than my frends and nabers that have 4x4 vheicles. You jist need to get out wheeling you dont need fancy things like A.B.S or zeon lights. the abs actualy hearts you on ice and other things that couse it to engage. my dads fend has a 2000 f 250 with abs and tryed to stop at the same stop signe that we did and we started later without abs and stped sooner than he did becouse of the abs. the only acednts i have had with our stock van that did damage to it or the area other than sum disturbed snow and dirt teparaly would be hiting a dear and the oil pan. other than that i have had countles flats thanks to people losing stuf like nails and botles on the highway.  

WOW! You are on the wrong website! Here's what I think the #1 safety feature for any vehicle: A DRIVER WITH A BRAIN!

All that computer crap you listed is for people that can't drive! As far as off road performance, the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon is a purpose (factory) built off road performance machine.  Of the vehicles you listed, most are little more than bloated station wagons with allwheel drive not real 4 wheel drives that have a transfercase with low range! It's about ground clearance and traction. Although the VW Toureg did win the 4WOR 4X4 of the year, it's still a station wagon.  The Subaru? Come on!

 "Do any of you have other suggestions or information about taking the Land Rover Freelander, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Outback off-road successfully?"

You can take them of road, but not very successfully...you probably won't make it back to the road!

Properly designed skidplates protect vital underbody components from damage and are very useful on a vehicle that will be used off road.

Jeeps have been the four wheeler's vehicle of choice for the past 60 years!

Thank you all for your replies.  Many of you suggest better drivers, but neither he nor I are expert drivers.  I'd say I'm about average, maybe a little above, but he almost never drives, and while he's a resonable guy, I suspect he's not very good.  He will have to drive to the off-road area/trail on regular highways and on those roads with a non-expert driver at the wheel, ABS is way up there on the list along with not-rear-drive and stability control.

Driving school is a great idea, but he doesn't drive much or currently own a car because he's not interested in driving.  Therefore, I don't think he'd be willing to attend a driving school.

I will recommend tools and such, and will also make sure he gets skid-plates.  That sounds quite sensible for him.

I'm still leaning towards the Nissan XTerra.  I don't like that it's rear-drive but at least it has stability control and it seems to offer the most off-road ability without going up in price to a VW Touareg.

I think that if all cars had stability control, ABS and telematics, there'd be a helluva lot less bad accidents out there.

OK I can maybe understand the ABS and stability control if he is that much of a novice driver. However I still think if he drives carefully and does not push his vehicle to the limits these are not necessary.

But... I don't understand what you seem to have against rear wheel drive. There is nothing that makes rear wheel drive less safe than front wheel drive. In fact front wheel drive has bad attributes such as torque steer and understeer and can be less stabile in circumstance such as cornering.Front wheel drive became popular with manufacturers as a space conservative. It allows lighter components for fuel savings and more space in the passenger compartment as you do not have drivetrain components running to the rear of the vehicle taking up space for passengers.

Can you clarify this fear of rear wheel drive for me?

Imagine a novice driver taking a curve too fast for conditions.  When the car starts to skid, the novice realizes he's in trouble so what does the novice do?

1. lift off the gas

2. slam on the brakes.

In a rear-drive car, that was oversteering, that's a big mistake.

OK take the exact same conditions in a front wheel drive vehicle.

let off the gas,slam on the brakes, slide straight off the road.

That's understeer!!!

Not any different really except the front of the vehicle is reacting not the back.

The big difference, is that in a FWD car, the weight is in the front and when you let off the gas/apply the brake, more weight is transferred to the front helping the tires regain grip.

In the RWD car, the weight would be transferred off the already sliding rear wheels, exacerbating the skid, possibly into a spin.

I guess we could debate this forever, but again it goes back to the driver who shouldn't be braking in the corner to begin with.

I can tell you that I have driven both front and rear wheel drive in all kinds of conditions and I also have advanced driver training.

I personally would rather drive the rear wheel drive because it is easier to predict.

But I guess maybe that's a personal preference.

If your concerns are that high, maybe your friend shouldnt be operating a vehicle at all.

Stability control will not help you off pavement. ABS is bad thing off pavement.

I think you pressing an argument here that wont fly. We arent novice drivers, therefore most folks here want nothing to do with "safety features" that removes control of the vehicle from the driver, and gives it to a computer.  

Aaaaaaah... well said!!!  

The wrangler would be best, rearwheel drive is a good thing.